Marnie: [00:00:02] Every day, Canadian organizations make strategic contributions to our economy to secure a better future. [00:00:08][5.8]

Russell: [00:00:09] These organizations and their leaders understand how contributing today reaps a long term benefit for Canada. [00:00:15][6.8]

Marnie: [00:00:17] Hi, I'm running Marnie Niemi Hood. [00:00:18][1.0]

Russell: [00:00:19] And I'm Russell Evans. [00:00:19][0.4]

Marnie: [00:00:21] Welcome to Contributors, a podcast that showcases the meaningful change taking place across our country, with a long term gain always in mind. [00:00:29][8.0]

Russell: [00:00:30] We're sitting down with Canadian leaders to talk about the people and ideas that are leading change, innovating industries and investing in Canada's well-being. [00:00:38][8.3]

Marnie: [00:00:39] And because of it, they're prospering by prioritizing more than just the bottom line. [00:00:43][4.3]

Russell: [00:00:45] So what does the future hold for Canadians? What great wins can we celebrate? Find out on Contributors, a podcast of possibilities. [00:00:53][8.2]

Marnie: [00:01:01] What will the world look like post-pandemic? This is the million dollar question on everyone's mind today. [00:01:07][5.5]

Russell: [00:01:08] As government and businesses across the globe begin to rebuild from COVID-19. We're starting to see glimpses into a post-pandemic world. [00:01:15][6.6]

Marnie: [00:01:17] Today on Contributors we're sitting down with Paula Allen, global leader and Senior Vice President of Research and Total Wellbeing at Life Works. We'll explore the state of Canadian organizations, particularly focusing on workplace wellness and how organizations are bouncing back with efforts like new employee retention programs. [00:01:36][18.9]

Russell: [00:01:36] Paula shares details on a recent Life Works study that explores the great resignation and its impact on senior roles. [00:01:44][7.4]

Marnie: [00:01:49] Hello, Paula, and welcome to Contributors. Let's jump right in. First and foremost, what is Life Works, for those that don't know? [00:01:56][7.2]

Paula: [00:01:57] Well Life Works is an organization that supports well-being. So we support mental well-being, physical well-being, social well-being and financial well-being. We know that it's the core to everything, quality of life, work productivity, even participation in the economy. We support organizations and the support of their people so organizations can include businesses, it can include post-secondary institutions and even some governments, and we have provide services to help improve well-being. [00:02:33][36.0]

Russell: [00:02:34] Perfect. Now, many Canadians may know Life Works by a different name. Can you tell us a little bit about your old name, your new name and what's behind that? [00:02:42][7.5]

Paula: [00:02:43] Yes. I wondered if this was going to be a trivia question. Our previous name was more Morneau Shepell, and we changed the name from Morneau Shepell to Life Works in May of 2021. The reason why we did that is we had the name Life Works because it was one of the names of one of our business lines, our EAP and our training business had that name. And it really embodied what our focus is. So we focus on helping people with issues related to the life. We focus on issues related to work. And also we focus on the intersection between them. We also know that life works and we focus on making it work for people by helping them through difficult times. And also with preventing things from becoming difficult. So we just felt it was a simpler, cleaner, more accessible way to show up in the marketplace based on our focus and purpose. [00:03:41][58.0]

Russell: [00:03:42] It's a great name. I want to compliment your team on that. It has that work-life balance built into the name, but it puts life first, which I feel is not an accident. [00:03:50][8.4]

Paula: [00:03:51] Yes, exactly. And quite astute for you to pick that up. One of our taglines is, you know, improving lives, improving business and very intentionally, the improving lives is first, because by improving people's individual lives and situations, we improve business as well. [00:04:11][19.7]

Russell: [00:04:12] Can you tell us a little bit about how life at life works and the work that you do has changed as a result of the pandemic? [00:04:18][5.9]

Paula: [00:04:19] We have always realized how important mental health and well-being overall is to people's individual lives and productivity. We really had as a result of this pandemic a broader recognition of that. So businesses really understood that even as they were making decisions around, you know, how they were going to manage their business continuity plans, people working from home, health and safety protocols, the government requirements, business model changes, that none of it would work if their people were not in a good place. And they also realized that as a result of all of this upheaval, their people were at risk. This has impacted people in a very significant way. There's no way possible that it wouldn't. So what has really changed is the recognition of how important well-being is. With that, we had to make sure that we were up and ready to support and serve. [00:05:19][60.6]

Marnie: [00:05:21] Now Paula Life Works is a huge organization, and you have clients all across Canada. Have you seen any difference in sectors or industries as far as how they've suffered or responded to the pandemic? [00:05:36][14.9]

Paula: [00:05:37] What I would say is that different groups of industries had very different experiences. Probably one of the most significant was with those that really couldn't even function or function in the way that they had before. Airlines, restaurant services, retail, accommodation. Those businesses were in full on crisis from stem to stern. So they had to figure out whether they were able to survive or not, and how to survive if their people had massive impact in terms of their financial situation and the anxiety was tremendous. And we found that strong correlation between that unstable financial situation current and what you saw for your future and mental health. So those groups really were in crisis mode, and the people who worked for those organizations were also in crisis mode. So we needed to respond accordingly. There are other organizations who also had added strain, but very different types of strain. So there are some businesses and industries that really took off. Anything related to home renovation, logistics and warehousing to support kind of delivery based economy, so they had other challenges, which is the people were exhausted, were burning out very early on. They were worried about supply chain. They were worried about, you know, keeping up. Those organizations really needed to invest. And we saw a lot in both groups actually extend EAP to their part time and contract workers who might not have had access before because they know that they were having to deal with more than what they had been dealing with before. And then there were other groups who just really had to deal with the population who was very much on edge. Much of our government and public service, people in financial institutions who were worried in the very beginning about their investments. They had to deal with people who were sometimes quite nasty to them. So, you know, training and support and, you know, safety valves, all of that were important. So, so many different experiences from different industries. But all at the core of it was they needed to make sure that their people were supported and that their managers were supported in helping their people. [00:08:07][150.3]

Marnie: [00:08:08] OK, that was great. Thanks, Paula, for that. Yeah, we certainly saw a big shift to work from home. And as things appear to be getting better, there is a new shift towards returning to the office. And you know, are you seeing any trends in employee retention and benefit offerings as people are returning to work? We're hearing about this, the great resignation. [00:08:35][26.8]

Paula: [00:08:36] Overall, people are paying attention to this right now, but it was entirely predictable way back in spring of last year. So quite some time ago, we'd actually predict this great resignation. And the reason is that people are feeling burned out. They are feeling a lot of emotional exhaustion. It's very difficult to feel motivated in what you're doing and where you are, you feel uncomfortable in your situation. So there is a drive to change that situation. And there's also a bit of a chemical hit if you want to put it that way. When you get a new job, when you have that offer of new employment, it validates you. It meets a need that people have right now. Whenever you're under a lot of strain, your need for recognition, your need for validation increases. And that's something that employers should pay attention to in terms of their retention strategy. Both of those points, but also the very real impact of the strain that people have on gone through because that's that's what's driving this great resignation as they're calling it. [00:09:50][73.9]

Russell: [00:09:54] Paula said it so well. The pandemic really turned on a crisis for so many industries, adversely impacting both employers and employees. It's something that Canada is still grappling with right now. [00:10:06][11.3]

Marnie: [00:10:06] Exactly. Hearing her speak to supply chain really struck me because logistical challenges have had enormous impact in our country and across the globe. What are your thoughts on the great resignation, Russell? [00:10:18][12.3]

Russell: [00:10:19] Well, I agree with Paul that this was in many ways inevitable. There's a high level of burnout happening right now across Canada. And I think that she's right, that we need recognition and support more than ever. I know that I felt this way over the last year or two. [00:10:32][12.9]

Marnie: [00:10:33] Yes, I see workplace benefits and pensions, for example, as a great opportunity. But it's actually much larger than that. It's about building a culture of recognition. Like, how can employers showcase their appreciation for employees while also ensuring the business needs and objectives are met? It's a nice segway into some of Life Work's research. Let's listen. [00:10:54][21.0]

Russell: [00:10:58] You have a recent study, Wellbeing and Resilience in Senior Leaders, and when Marnie and I were reviewing that, there's some some pretty jarring insights here, effectively showing that the state of mental well-being amongst senior leaders is compromised and that it has the potential of compromising our post-pandemic workplace recovery. Can you tell us a little bit about that study and what you discovered there? [00:11:21][22.4]
Paula: [00:11:22] Well, the reason we did this study and we did this and in partnership with Deloitte, is that we have really great data with our own Life Works mental health index about the impact of this situation, this change, this uncertainty, this risk, this upheaval of the pandemic on people's mental health. And it has declined and and really maintained a low level. And I just mentioned to you some of the factors of how it's playing out. One of which is this drive to change jobs, to change careers. We'd also done a separate study on front line managers, and we actually found that they were faring a bit worse than the average employee. This strain of the pandemic has really hit them harder. So their mental health indicators and their intent to resign was actually greater than employees. So we felt that we we also needed to look at the senior leadership group to see whether that pattern was any different or the same. And what we found is that the intent to leave was actually higher. So 23 percent retired were thinking about resigning. But when you looked at people looking at downshifting going part time tiering earlier than they otherwise would have been at 51 percent. So we looked at this in this study a fair bit, and we found the strain on these senior leaders was incredible, like they were dealing with everything everybody else is dealing with in their personal lives of kids and uncertainty and not having your outlets. They were also dealing with a lot of the things that frontline leaders were dealing with, but they also had really major business issues to think about how are we going to make sure that our organization survives? [00:13:10][108.6]

Russell: [00:13:11] I have a good friend that works at a Fortune 500 company, and she was telling me that the experience that they've had at their organization is a number of the resignations have come from very well tenured staff at senior leader levels, but also at other levels, and that they're informally calling it the boomer brain drain, where the people that really know how to run the business are leaving and they're effectively irreplaceable in the short term. Is that something you're familiar with and what are organizations doing about that? [00:13:40][28.6]
Paula: [00:13:41] Yeah, that's very aligned with what we're seeing and for a few reasons. Usually, it is those people who have the burden, like they're the ones you call on in times of crisis because they have the experience. They know the organization inside and out. It's not as much of a reflex to call on your newest employees to help you steer the ship in a crisis. It's the ones that are that are tenured, so that makes it unsurprising. The other is that when you're tenured in your role, you probably have some options and some cushions. You might have almost paid off your mortgage. You might have a little bit more savings. The opportunity to downshift is there, the opportunity to go part time is there. You're prioritizing your own quality of life a little bit more because you're sort of realizing, you know, yeah, I need more than just what I had, and people started seeking other opportunities to diversify what's in their, in their in their roles. So the triggers for that group are quite clear. We saw the driver of this change and a number of leaders as well as employees was mental stress. So having that opportunity to sort of have a bit of a valve being able to speak about what you're experiencing to have the support of your manager in a very real way, to have the support of your peers, to not feel isolated when you're in stress, to feel comfortable reaching out for support. Because we also heard that senior leaders felt that even if the organization encouraged employees to use things like EAP and speak if they had any kind of strain, they felt the rules were a little bit different from that. The other is second in our research was feeling under appreciated. So this is something employers can do something about. When you are under strain, you need more recognition. When you are doing something hard, you need more validation. [00:15:47][126.7]

Marnie: [00:15:49] Certainly, we've seen and anticipated workplace pressures due to what we thought were going to be retirements in the baby boom generation, anyway. And now we've seen all of these additional challenges placed on them and as they're leaving. Luckily, they have access, as you say, to some cushions, maybe a pension and things like that that this has a really potentially destabilizing loss of talent for organizations. And I think you've suggested some, some great opportunities that employers have to support high performers. What would you say are some of these long term implications as some of these burdens are lifted? But as the workforce is dealing with the trauma of what's happened so far with the pandemic, [00:16:42][52.6]

Paula: [00:16:43] so I think any organization that doesn't pay attention to the words that I would, I would agree with, which is the trauma of the pandemic on their people, are doing it on their own peril. I do think that organizations need to understand that people are prioritizing their mental health and well-being like they never have before because they've realized it's more fragile than they thought before. Some organizations erroneously say, Well, if I paid people enough, it won't matter. I'll still have access. And you might to a certain extent, but they will not perform the way you would hope. So it's not even just a matter of attracting like you can pay and get people. But we know from there is Google's research and other research said that even the highest performers, the brightest people, they perform better if they are in a situation that feels psychologically safe and supportive of their well-being. [00:17:42][59.2]

Russell: [00:17:43] I just want to ask a follow up on that. So for listeners. Let's talk a little bit about the scope of the problem. If we're not able to stem the tide of senior leaders leaving, if we're not able to stop kind of that boomer brain drain of losing your most tenured, all that institutional knowledge. What are the implications for Canadian business, Paula? [00:18:04][21.1]

Paula: [00:18:05] It actually is potentially destabilizing when you have that knowledge, when you have that background. You can make decisions that are nuanced based and that tends to make the difference between whether you're is successful or not. It's not just a matter of having the business book knowledge, it's matter of being able to think about multiple impacts of your decisions. So the likelihood that organizations would make decisions that are not helpful and then have to retract and you know, more trial and error is greater. The other thing is that it's going to have an impact on culture. As senior leaders leave then employees are going to feel more vulnerable, less secure because it doesn't make you feel good if you feel like the if you see the most senior people, the captains of your ship jumping ship, this whole environment in terms of, you know, the importance of workplace well-being and then shifting gears just slightly because there is that destabilizing factor. But there's also another factor that organizations need to pay attention to and always need to pay attention to, which is what investors think of them. And again, if you know the loss of a senior leader is one thing that investors pay attention to, the loss of multiple senior leaders is a flag that investors pay attention to. [00:19:28][83.0]

Russell: [00:19:32] The scope of this problem is clear. If we're not able to stop the burnout or brain drain, the implications for Canada are immense. The more leaders and long tenured employees who leave an organization, the less secure all employees will feel. And as Paula said, with the loss of so much institutional knowledge, organizations might also lose the ability to make sound and informed decisions. [00:19:54][21.8]

Marnie: [00:19:55] This is certainly the recipe for and the beginning of a vicious cycle. Workplace wellbeing has been directly tied to employee productivity. Employees want to do good for the organizations they work with, but they need the same levels of respect and well-being in return. [00:20:10][14.7]

Russell: [00:20:11] Exactly. As Paula said, people are focusing on their mental health and well-being more than ever, and there are programs and benefits that can help employers ensure they're focusing on it as well. Let's hear what some of those initiatives are and how Canada can embrace them. [00:20:25][14.3]

Marnie: [00:20:29] What other sorts of programs and benefits do you think would be available to help support high performers, senior leaders, people leaders in the workplace? [00:20:40][10.8]

Paula: [00:20:41] Well, I think the one thing is that we need to make sure that we have platforms of support. So I think it's important for people to feel validated for their own experience and have a platform of support. So some people we found actually over over the pandemic that, you know, there are traditionally EAP, whether it's virtual or in person or telephonic, that's been fairly valuable. But we've also found it valuable to have internet based cognitive behavioral therapy in the mix. And that's a different modality. That's where you're doing things on your own. You're learning, it's a learning based modality and you have the support of a counselor. So, you know, it's really more skill based intervention and some of what people perceive to be the more traditional. And it's and it's done in five and 10 minute chunks, which is so helpful for senior leaders, high performers, you know, people who just don't have the time to take an hour out of their day, even if it is important for their wellbeing. I think what's really critical about the whole conversation with benefits is that employees are really looking for organizations to do things that are tangible. It's not just that we care about your well-being, like how, like, show me, you know what is it? Like if you're having a conversation with a potential new hire, for example? You know, having that conversation that says, we are an organization that prioritizes the well-being of our people. And as a result, we have invested in X, Y and Z benefits, and we have invested in a range of digital financial support, you know, emergency savings programs in addition to our pension support. So a range of things so you can find something that's valuable for you. [00:22:33][111.7]

Marnie: [00:22:34] Being able to promote all of those services, the availability of those services for employees is really critical. I've seen the app that you have, it's fantastic. And I think in in many cases throughout all levels of the organization, that stigma regarding obtaining any kind of mental health support can be significant. And the privacy component of being able just to pull your phone out and obtain that internet based cognitive behavioral therapy. In the privacy of your own home without your employer or your colleagues knowing, I think that's a real advantage. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:23:20][46.4]

Paula: [00:23:21] I'm so glad that you mentioned this point because as much as we've been trying for years and some gains have been made, we still have stigma with respect to mental health issues. There's no two ways about it. And some people feel more stigmatized than others. For example, senior leaders still feel that as well. So having that opportunity to very privately have that, that connection and you mentioned the internet based cognitive behavioral therapy we've had some people say that that's one of the reasons why they chose that they didn't even want to go video counseling because they didn't want to show their their face. They wanted to do something that was helpful and evidence based and practical and have the availability of a counselor in the background. But without actually showing themselves. [00:24:12][50.9]

Russell: [00:24:13] So the the study that you did on leadership dovetails really nicely with a recent study you may have seen from Robert Half, and this had indicated that a third of workers may quit if they're forced to return to the office. Can you share your take on that? And kind of how should Canadian employers interpret that? [00:24:33][19.7]

Paula: [00:24:33] I think there's a couple of ways. I think the main thing is that people at this point need a sense of control, and people at this point are really quite anxious about change. So I think that's part of it. It isn't just whether I work from home or whether I don't work from home. There are some very practical reasons why people are saying that their well-being is better. Their time with their family is richer. They're able to save money. There's some practical, very practical reasons why people with their feet in the sand about this particular issue. But there's another level as well, and I think that that's kind of important for employers to understand in the way they they transition. So right now, think about it, we had everybody start working from home, and that wasn't easy. But then we started to adapt to it. And as soon as we're adapting to it, we're seeing change again. One of the things that was so helpful in adapting to the work from home is that many managers realize that people are in different situations and that they needed to build in some flexibility that gave people a sense of control and also recognition that their own needs were important. [00:25:53][79.8]

Russell: [00:25:55] One of the things that I was interested to see in that Robert Half study is that they did ask employees, and the question was what could we do to ease the in-office experience for you if you have to come back? What would make that worthwhile? And the common thread in the ideas that were selected was making it feel more like home. [00:26:14][19.5]

Paula: [00:26:15] I think the fact it was asked in this study is a good model, employers should ask as well. Overall, you have a good indication of what employees might like and your people might want the exact same thing, or they might want something different. But even just the process of asking is so respectful. You want people to feel that what they think and what they need matters. [00:26:39][24.5]

Marnie: [00:26:40] These are unprecedented times and trying to maintain your culture as an organization while you have a remote workplace and as you're trying to return to the office and maintain that culture while you're bringing the best of working at home and combining it with the best of working in the office is the challenge for sure. [00:27:03][23.0]

Russell: [00:27:04] So this show is called Contributors and what we really see this show as is an opportunity to talk to business leaders like yourself that are helping build a better Canada. So we're at a crossroads now as we come out of the pandemic. Where do you see the opportunities to build Canada back better, Paula? [00:27:25][20.8]

Paula: [00:27:25] I want Canada to seize the opportunity that we have like we don't have to stretch for this. We have an opportunity to be a leader in our business sector in how we move forward in the pandemic. We have a wonderful social culture, in my opinion. It doesn't mean that everything is perfect. It doesn't mean that everything you know, the things that we can't deal with. But overall, we have a culture where people matter, where individuals matter. We have an expectation of mutual respect between people. There's nowhere else in the world that I rather call home. We were the first to develop a psychological standard and lo and behold, that standard has really driven what's come out just this past spring internationally as an ISO standard for psychological health and safety and in the workplace. So we were a catalyst and there's many other areas where I think we are the catalysts. So there's no reason why Canada can't take that wonderful culture, that we have, a social culture that we have and some of the efforts that we've been successful at in terms of worker wellbeing and mental health and lead. We know the productivity in this millennium is driven by people. It's not driven by technology. Technology is actually available to everyone. It's leveled the playing field. The difference is in people. So I think if we focus on that as being the center of our business success and sustainability, we will build back better. [00:29:07][101.1]

Marnie: [00:29:08] Paula, what would you say surprised you the most over the pandemic in terms of this creativity and innovation around people? [00:29:17][8.9]

Paula: [00:29:17] I think that we surprised ourselves with how quickly we could get things done. When you think about how we've adapted business models did have to adapt and they had to do it quickly and they did it imperfectly, but they did it. People have to transition in the way they do work. Some working from home, even those who didn't work from home had to change the way they were working at the worksite in a fairly significant way. You had every level of the organization having to adapt, and I'm not saying that it was easy, but it was done. So it really kind of showed us that when there is a clear purpose, it allowed us to sort of cognitively cut through a lot of red tape to get things done. I would hope that we remember that going forward and set some goals for ourselves. So back to how we can build back better: set lofty goals. How are we going to be more innovative? How are we going to be more productive? How are we going to lead in worker well-being and just do it? [00:30:22][64.4]

Russell: [00:30:23] I'm hearing that we need to lean in on our Canadian-ness. We're nice. We care, we care about our people. And that could be the secret of our success. [00:30:31][8.6]

Marnie: [00:30:32] We've been building Wellness Wednesdays here at CAAT and creating that culture about supporting each other, and resilience is something that, you know, we're hoping that we'll be taking that into continuing that into the future. What type of lasting impact do you hope your work around total well-being will have on workplaces in Canada? [00:30:55][23.0]

Paula: [00:30:56] Well, what has happened is that there is a different group of people that we're having conversations with. We're having more conversations directly with CEOs. We're having more conversations directly with boards of directors. So again, any insightful leader would realize what I just said, which is the core of your productivity is your people. So how you treat your employees, how you support your employees, it's never been more clear that that's a material factor in the success of business. So it is something investors are looking at more. So with all of that, we see this as being an agenda at the top of the house and we see that we're going to have sustained value as a result of that focus. [00:31:45][49.0]

Marnie: [00:31:46] You're in a unique situation. To be able to not only build on your existing capabilities for wellness and H.R. on your team, but you have that unique vantage point as the key provider of those services to Canadians across the country to see what works and to see those results. [00:32:08][21.8]

Paula: [00:32:09] I do think it was an advantage because I think a lot of organizations came to that, but they kind of came to that stumbling. This is a crisis. We know this is going to cause strain. We know that we're not going to be able to to to survive unless we focus on our people. So it was a starting point as opposed to the second or third point to our plan. And again, it really was an advantage. [00:32:33][23.6]

Russell: [00:32:38] Paula had some really fantastic insights on the future of Canada. I agree that Canada is a global leader in talent management. [00:32:44][6.4]

Marnie: [00:32:45] Exactly. We're learning and growing and have an opportunity to face the challenges presented by this pandemic and come out even stronger. There are so many benefits programs available to employers that can really help employees during this time. While much still remains up in the air, Paula mentioned that the shifts we're seeing represent a great opportunity for Canada to step up. [00:33:07][21.5]

Russell: [00:33:07] Exactly. I think one of the real silver linings of the pandemic is the strong focus that so many organizations are taking on employee health and well-being. Obviously, the health impacts of the pandemic have been severe. It's really encouraging to see so many employers prioritizing wellness, especially during times of crisis. [00:33:25][18.1]

Marnie: [00:33:26] Yes, above all, we're learning about the importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance, and Canadian employers are rising to the challenge by offering more flexibility to an increasingly changing workforce. [00:33:39][12.3]

Russell: [00:33:40] I think as we know, managing transitions, dealing with adversity builds strength, and I think the truth is that the last year and a half has been an amazing opportunity for Canadian businesses to get even stronger. [00:33:51][11.1]

Marnie: [00:33:52] Whether you're in a senior leadership position or working towards your next career goal, one thing's certain: keeping your finger on the pulse of workplace well-being is crucial to the future of every Canadian industry. Thanks for joining us today on Contributors. We hope to see you again next time. [00:34:12][20.2]

Russell: [00:34:13] Don't forget to subscribe rate and review Contributors on Apple Podcasts. And tune in to our next episode on October the 20th. [00:34:13][0.0]

[1957.5]